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lurer

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have recently been trying to improve my release and implement more hook wrist cock and wrist angle for power/revs.  

I throw the ball around 16-17 and do not want to loose speed while I gain hook/power.  I have been bowling as an adult about 4 years now.

I guess my question is when I do try to use more wrist cock and crank it I pull it and many times lose speed on my ball.  Any tips?  

Maybe uncocked through the swing and cock through the release will help not sure...
input?
BowlingOldies

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Reply with quote  #2 
Get your hands on Mark Baker's new DVD called "The System."  You'll notice that he never mentions the release.  (Well, he mentions it at the very end, but only when he draws attention to the fact that he doesn't directly discuss it in his system.)

Why does he not talk about the release?  Because he believes (and so do I, by the way) that if you have the basics down of what needs to happen BEFORE the release, the release will pretty much take care of itself.

It's almost impossible to have a good release if what happens before it in your approach is too far off.

I never really think much about my release.  If I have any pre-approach thoughts about it, it's either to remind myself to stay behind the ball (which is really pointless, since I can only stay behind it if certain other things happen correctly), or more often, to not grab it at the bottom (grabbing it is like hitting a little extra hard with lift at the bottom, which only results in bad things).  You can set positions at address and leave them there, and I do that.  But I find that the more I cock my wrist in the setup, the more likely I am to hang in the ball at the release and pull it or just not project it down the lane as much as I'd like.  May be the same sort of thing as you describe, although I don't generally find that I lose speed as a result.  The funny thing is, I can set up with my wrist broken back and I'll actually get more lift on the ball than I do when I cup my wrist.  As a result, I've gotten to the point here lately where I typically tend to go with a fairly neutral setup, neither cupping my wrist or breaking it back, just a sort of flat wrist position.  And if I need a little extra, instead of cupping my wrist, I cock it slightly over to the pinkie side of my hand, which effectively puts my hand in a position where it's more behind the ball and less "around" it.  This almost always gives me a couple of extra boards of hook at the end.  Especially useful when I'm leaving weak 10s and need a little something more to get the ball to turn the corner.  Best of all, it comes off my hand easily, not like cupping the wrist which tends to promote staying in the ball a little too long.

Get Mark's DVD.  You won't regret it.
lurer

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Reply with quote  #3 
Yeah, well the wrist cupping like you mentioned does seem to have me "grabbing" the ball.  But the cocking of the wrist to the pinky side is definitely something I will maybe just keep an eye on, or just incorporate before the swing, so as not to think about it during the swing.



I will try to get a hold of the dvd...
lurer

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Reply with quote  #4 
Any other thoughts from anybody welcome...
swingset

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Reply with quote  #5 
I'm a tweener with a higher rev rate, and I don't cup at all - completely unnecessary, for the reasons bowling oldies mentioned. If your approach, swing and hand position are right it's going to be more of an automatic.

Now, I'll add to that by saying that at an advanced level, you can do a small bit to put more on it at release...but IMHO that should be the very last thing a bowler ever attempts to do - I mean the crowning adjustment on a pillar of foundations & adjustments with timing, delivery, and swing.

Cupping is just begging your arm, forearm and hand to over-muscle, and it's not a technique many people can just "switch on".

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BowlingOldies

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Reply with quote  #6 
The actual amount of time that transpires from the instant the ball begins to come off the thumb to the last instant the fingers are in the ball is a fraction of a second.  If you think you can manipulate what happens in that fraction of a second with any kind of consistency time after time, you are freakin' dreaming.

The best any player can hope to do is set themselves up consistently and then make a measured, consistent delivery and hope the ball comes off your hand as planned.  And if you do most of the things in your approach correctly and the same, it will.

But to try to manipulate the release is fool's gold.
swingset

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingOldies
The actual amount of time that transpires from the instant the ball begins to come off the thumb to the last instant the fingers are in the ball is a fraction of a second.  If you think you can manipulate what happens in that fraction of a second with any kind of consistency time after time, you are freakin' dreaming.

The best any player can hope to do is set themselves up consistently and then make a measured, consistent delivery and hope the ball comes off your hand as planned.  And if you do most of the things in your approach correctly and the same, it will.

But to try to manipulate the release is fool's gold.


Agree totally, what I mean by adding something is more in the swing & follow through than the hand itself...see someone like Fagan's "ball slap" for an example, but again that's nothing I personally would ever toy with, nor should anyone until they're a portrait of repeatability, and even then it might not be warranted.

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lurer

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Reply with quote  #8 
Great input.  Yeah Fagan also does the uncupped hand in the backswing, something that I also try to implement just to help with an free and easy arm swing, something that I can always use help with. 
Fordman

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Reply with quote  #9 
Remember that you must do all the things mentioned.  And stay relaxed and don't think about doing them?
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spr3wr

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Reply with quote  #10 
A article I read from John Jowdy
Staying under the ball

Bowling manuals have suggested numerous methods for staying under the ball. Some have suggested closing the armpit from the top of the swing to the point of release. Or you may prefer keeping the forearm facing the target from the release point to the follow through or perhaps keeping the elbow tucked into your side on the downswing.

These methods have been successful for many bowlers, but one fact remains: There are no set patterns. Bowling manuals merely serve as guides for attaining a desired purpose. I do not disprove any of the methods mentioned earlier. Yet, in each case, there is undue strain to the forearm that may initiate muscle tension and deter the flow of a free armswing.

I devised a method to stay under the ball yet maintain a free armswing. I refer to my system as a ring finger lead. In the ring finger lead, all movement is initiated from the hand (the lowest and heaviest part of the swing) requiring no muscle tension.

After reaching the top of the backswing, lead the downswing with the ring finger preceding the middle finger until the release point. At this time, the ring finger should be at about a 9 o’clock position. Then the thumb exits the ball and the weight of the ball is transferred to the fingers. The fingers then rotate from the bottom to the 3 o’clock position, simultaneously projecting the ball outward on the lane.


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lurer

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Reply with quote  #11 

Thanks for all the input.  

The next quandary I have is rubber finger plugs vs. none to gain revs.  I have traditionally used none, but I have had a new ball with plugs installed.  I am having a difficult time with my fingers "grabbing" and like catching, or hanging onto the rubber... and I don't get that good finger flip feeling.  I don't know if any of this makes sense...  I am not sure if I actually am getting any more revs...


Thoughts?

(I think I will post this as a new thread as well)

So you can respond in either...

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