Bowling Forums, Bowling Discussion and Bowling Talk
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
Oldbowler

Registered:
Posts: 351
Reply with quote  #1 
I keep seeing posts that include the statement, "the secretary runs the league".  How is that happening?  The secretary collects and handles the money and has no other delegated powers, which means they rule by default, only if the league president and vice-president allow them to.  Any changes from the rules requires a vote of the team captains, or the general membership.

When did the secretary become God?

__________________
Old bowlers never die, they just fade away.
mrbowling300

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 11,716
Reply with quote  #2 
I always thought the president runs the league?


Dare

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,323
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbowling300
I always thought the president runs the league?





It should but most leagues I bowl in everyone runs to the sec
if there's a problem. I guess like me everyone assumes the sec is
in charge

__________________
Pink Black Widow   Pyramid Curse

Web Tour
bowlersensi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #4 
Who runs the league?

First it would really need to be determined what is being meant by "Run".

The league as a whole is "ran" by the Officers and the Board of Directors. Each of these in turn has duties which are spelled out by the USBC Rules (Rule 102 – League Officers, Rule 103 – Board of Directors)

For the most part the President has very few assigned duties. The main ones being 1. Preside at all league meetings. 2. Enforce all rules and regulations of the league. The others are basically just Appointing committees and some minor financial over sight of the league funds. That's all the President is required to do by the rules.

The V.P. only fills in for the president if needed there are no other required duties for them.

The Sergeant-at-Arms only does what the President and B.O.D. tells them too.

The Secretary (/Treasurer) is basically the work horse of the league, managing the paper work, finances etc. along with any duties specified by the board of directors. (102e. Duties of the Secretary ) That last part is where the Sec. gets alot of power from.

The Board of Directors really has the greatest power under the rules. (Rule 103 – Board of Directors> 103b. Duties )

103b. Duties
The board of directors or the youth league supervisor and official shall be responsible for:
1. Making decisions on all matters arising in the league.
2. Deciding all protests involving USBC or league rules. The decision of the league board is final unless
 an appeal is made under the provisions of Rule 119.

As for "the secretary runs the league".  How is that happening?  Depending what the context was when that statement was made, Most likely it was because the other officers and the B.O.D. did not wish to be involved in running the league and the membership allowed it because the majority of USBC members don't read the rulebook so don't know what the rules are or how any of this stuff works or any rights they have.



__________________
Rin, Pyōh, Tōh, Sha, Kai, Jin, Retsu, Zai, Zen.........Kō
Oldbowler

Registered:
Posts: 351
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlersensi
Who runs the league?

First it would really need to be determined what is being meant by "Run".

The league as a whole is "ran" by the Officers and the Board of Directors. Each of these in turn has duties which are spelled out by the USBC Rules (Rule 102 – League Officers, Rule 103 – Board of Directors)

For the most part the President has very few assigned duties. The main ones being 1. Preside at all league meetings. 2. Enforce all rules and regulations of the league. The others are basically just Appointing committees and some minor financial over sight of the league funds. That's all the President is required to do by the rules.

The V.P. only fills in for the president if needed there are no other required duties for them.

The Sergeant-at-Arms only does what the President and B.O.D. tells them too.

The Secretary (/Treasurer) is basically the work horse of the league, managing the paper work, finances etc. along with any duties specified by the board of directors. (102e. Duties of the Secretary ) That last part is where the Sec. gets alot of power from.

The Board of Directors really has the greatest power under the rules. (Rule 103 – Board of Directors> 103b. Duties )

103b. Duties
The board of directors or the youth league supervisor and official shall be responsible for:
1. Making decisions on all matters arising in the league.
2. Deciding all protests involving USBC or league rules. The decision of the league board is final unless
 an appeal is made under the provisions of Rule 119.

As for "the secretary runs the league".  How is that happening?  Depending what the context was when that statement was made, Most likely it was because the other officers and the B.O.D. did not wish to be involved in running the league and the membership allowed it because the majority of USBC members don't read the rulebook so don't know what the rules are or how any of this stuff works or any rights they have.




Ok, here is a follow up question for you.  Yesterday while bowling I noticed there appeared to be something attached to the towel of a member of the opposing team as it was left in the bowling area.  I checked it out and realized it was a scratch pad tucked into the towel in a way it would not be noticed unless the bowler was careless with how it was left laying.  The league president was bowling next to us and I went over and pointed it out to him.  His answer was, "ok what do you want me to do about it?"  I asked if they were following USBC guidelines and he said, "I don't know, does it matter?"  I know it is an non sanctioned league, but that wasn't my question.  I realized then that he either really doesn't know, or is playing stupid, or just doesn't care about fair play.  The house is the secretary for the league, so that wouldn't amount to anything.

What would you have done?


__________________
Old bowlers never die, they just fade away.
avabob

Registered:
Posts: 435
Reply with quote  #6 
If the league is not sanctioned it would only be an issue if there was a league rule about altering the ball surface during play. Some leagues specifically reference USBC rules, and some don't.
SpinBowler300

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 852
Reply with quote  #7 
If it's not certified, he can do whatever he wants to his ball between frames.
__________________
Fall Leagues: Monday - Five Star Lanes, Tuesday  & Thursday - Astro Lanes.
Balls: Motiv Trident Abyss, Motiv Forge Fire, Motiv Hydra & Motiv Hyper Sniper. All made in the USA.

Pullmyfinger

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,700
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinBowler300
If it's not certified, he can do whatever he wants to his ball between frames.


100% correct. That's one of the problems that come up when you don't sanction. 

There's an easy solution to this. Rule #1 in your bylaws should read: "This league will be non-sanctioned, but will adhere to all USBC rules unless stated in these rules."

The only problem is governing these rules. You have no recourse if the rules aren't enforced. If your officers don't enforce it you can ask for a league meeting, but unless you get backing from most of the bowlers good luck.  
themrfreeze

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,839
Reply with quote  #9 
As both the secretary AND treasurer of my league I can tell you first hand that the secretary/treasurer runs the league.  [rofl]

Seriously, it may SEEM that we run the league but that's because the vast majority of issues needing to be resolved relate to league rules or financial questions/concerns, so we are the ones that get asked for help all the time.   The president technically is in charge but at least in our league has little to nothing to do.  We never experience the types of issues (like cheating, personality conflicts, fights, etc.) that would necessitate the president having to resolve issues or throw his weight around (for lack of a better term). 
bowlersensi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbowler


Ok, here is a follow up question for you.  Yesterday while bowling I noticed there appeared to be something attached to the towel of a member of the opposing team as it was left in the bowling area.  I checked it out and realized it was a scratch pad tucked into the towel in a way it would not be noticed unless the bowler was careless with how it was left laying.



Quote:
The league president was bowling next to us and I went over and pointed it out to him.  His answer was, "ok what do you want me to do about it?"
 

So your answer to his question was you asked him the following question.

Quote:
  I asked if they were following USBC guidelines and he said, "I don't know, does it matter?"  I know it is an non sanctioned league, but that wasn't my question.


Yes that was your question You asked if they were following USBC guidelines He said "I don't know"

Quote:
I realized then that he either really doesn't know, or is playing stupid, or just doesn't care about fair play.


As for fair play, what are your league rules regarding sanding balls during play? If there are none then there's nothing unfair about it, their not violating any league rules and since it's a non-USBC certified league the USBC rules don't matter. Everyone would have the right to do it, So that person had no unfair advantage.


 
Quote:
The house is the secretary for the league, so that wouldn't amount to anything.



Quote:

What would you have done?


Since it was a non-certified league, It would depend on what the league rules were in regards to that situation. Not knowing what those are I can't say what I would do.

But assuming that you knew what your league rules are, If you knew they were violating one of them. Then that's how you should have approached the president and made a formal complaint if that's what you wanted.

__________________
Rin, Pyōh, Tōh, Sha, Kai, Jin, Retsu, Zai, Zen.........Kō
bowlersensi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pullmyfinger


100% correct. That's one of the problems that come up when you don't sanction. 

There's an easy solution to this. Rule #1 in your bylaws should read: "This league will be non-sanctioned, but will adhere to all USBC rules unless stated in these rules."

The only problem is governing these rules. You have no recourse if the rules aren't enforced. If your officers don't enforce it you can ask for a league meeting, but unless you get backing from most of the bowlers good luck.  


Ditto!

__________________
Rin, Pyōh, Tōh, Sha, Kai, Jin, Retsu, Zai, Zen.........Kō
Oldbowler

Registered:
Posts: 351
Reply with quote  #12 
I know people have difference definitions, but to me "fair play" means not knowingly taking advantage of a situation for your own benefit.  The man doing the surface adjustment is a seasoned high average bowler who certainly knows that making surface adjustments during competition is not "fair play."  To me saying it is fair because it is seemingly not specifically prohibited is akin to saying it's not cheating if you don't get caught.

The reason the USBC had to make a rule is because there are cheaters everywhere.  Goes back to the bleeder balls, dipping a ball in acetone, adding slugs under the thumb or finger holes, etc.  If people were decent and honorable, no laws would be needed.  Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the norm anymore.  They just recently fired some coaching staff for using cameras to aid in decoding signals between the catcher and pitcher.  Disgusting to me.

__________________
Old bowlers never die, they just fade away.
bowlersensi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbowler
I know people have difference definitions, but to me "fair play" means not knowingly taking advantage of a situation for your own benefit.  The man doing the surface adjustment is a seasoned high average bowler who certainly knows that making surface adjustments during competition is not "fair play."  To me saying it is fair because it is seemingly not specifically prohibited is akin to saying it's not cheating if you don't get caught..


Cheating is when you do something to subvert rules in order to obtain a unfair advantage. So If there is no rule against sanding a ball during competition, then it's not cheating. 

Yes the USBC has rules against altering a balls surface during competition. But this isn't about a USBC league and This isn't some question about morals or codes of honor, it's about if someone is playing by the rules the league has set.

Sanding a ball isn't inherently unfair in some way. It doesn't give someone a unfair advantage "IF" everyone else is allowed to do it.

If the majority of the players don't know they are allowed to do it, that's their fault for not reading the rules and/or taking part in the rule making process at the beginning of the league.












__________________
Rin, Pyōh, Tōh, Sha, Kai, Jin, Retsu, Zai, Zen.........Kō
Dare

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,323
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlersensi


Cheating is when you do something to subvert rules in order to obtain a unfair advantage. So If there is no rule against sanding a ball during competition, then it's not cheating. 

Yes the USBC has rules against altering a balls surface during competition. But this isn't about a USBC league and This isn't some question about morals or codes of honor, it's about if someone is playing by the rules the league has set.

Sanding a ball isn't inherently unfair in some way. It doesn't give someone a unfair advantage "IF" everyone else is allowed to do it.

If the majority of the players don't know they are allowed to do it, that's their fault for not reading the rules and/or taking part in the rule making process at the beginning of the league.

'

What's the difference in sanding a ball or shining it and changing balls. Why not
make you use the ball you start with and no spare balls allowed. Just thinking










__________________
Pink Black Widow   Pyramid Curse

Web Tour
bowlersensi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 90
Reply with quote  #15 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare

What's the difference in sanding a ball or shining it and changing balls. Why not
make you use the ball you start with and no spare balls allowed. Just thinking


In the discussions over the years about the rules regarding altering a balls surface on the different bowling forums, That has been brought up many times.

It's a valid point, the ability to switch balls during play offers a very similar advantage to changing surface textures during play (plus others as well).

But it also puts players who cannot afford multiple balls at a disadvantage. Allowing sanding during play would partially address that, but not totally.

Requiring you use the ball you start with and no spare balls allowed is a option, But if you wanted reach even more parity.

You would have to require everyone use the same kind of ball (which most likely in general would be a polyester ball, because you'd wind up going with the lowest common denominator so as to have a ball that is affordable to the largest possible number of people that being a cheap plastic ball.) and they all have the same surface and drilling layout.

And there have been a few leagues and tournaments that did that, but they frankly never go over in the long run.



__________________
Rin, Pyōh, Tōh, Sha, Kai, Jin, Retsu, Zai, Zen.........Kō
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.