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Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #1 
I personally think none of the bowling conditions today are even close to fair to all participants.

Every oil pattern used seems to favor some bowlers and dis-advantage others...

How could the environment be  changed for the good for every one ?

Any ideas ?

Your thoughts ?

 

 

Oldbowler

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Reply with quote  #2 
Flat oil gutter to gutter, down to about 42-45 feet and buffed out.  That way whoever scores, wins.  No catering to lefties, hookers, tweeners, plastic, urethane, reactive.  What you own you throw.  If something works better for you use it.  If not change.
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themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #3 
Oldbowler is right IMHO...a totally flat pattern gutter to gutter is about as fair a pattern as you'll likely find.  Still, there's no way you'll make everybody happy no matter what pattern you put out there...ask anybody who oils lanes for a living, lol!
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #4 
I can't disagree,
but,
how long would that flat oil continue to be flat and honest ?
jpkaina

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Reply with quote  #5 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themrfreeze
Oldbowler is right IMHO...a totally flat pattern gutter to gutter is about as fair a pattern as you'll likely find.  Still, there's no way you'll make everybody happy no matter what pattern you put out there...ask anybody who oils lanes for a living, lol!

 

Chris speaks the truth here. 

 

I've been cornered at other centers by bowlers who can't hit the house shot where I work. I even had one guy tell me I was putting out a sport shot.

 

"Can't please everyone" is definitely right


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Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #6 
jp,

What would be your estimate of how many games per pair would it to take to alter (and alter how?) a flat pattern as Oldbowler suggests  ?

His idea was a length of 42 feet,  so could you also estimate flat oil at other lengths, and a few different volumes ?

Maybe 35 feet and 26 feet  lengths ?
Dare

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Reply with quote  #7 
One of my friends is 79 drops every ball,has a 10 mph ball speed with
a 13 pound ball and blames the way the lanes are run as why he can't
carry a 10 pin. He says it's a modified sport shot whatever  that is.

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avabob

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Reply with quote  #8 
Every oil pattern favors some style over others. That includes a flat pattern. It is not about fairness, it is about technology. Every technological change going back to the switch from shellac to lacquer has favored one style over another . The looping full roller of Ned Day wasn't as effective on lacquer. The straighter style of Jim Stefanich wasnt effective on urethane finish where short oil became the norm. The hooking cup wristed roll out shot of Del Ballard wasnt as effective with the resin ball of the 90s. The higher friction environment created by aggressive shell balls regardless of oil pattern rewards the matchup of high speed with high revs.

What is fair becomes a matter of perspective. I thought the 80s were unfair to my low speed stroker style. I never won a scratch tourney between 1981 and 1989. As soon as oil patterns went longer I started winning again. Even better when resin came out.

If ball surfaces were cut back dramatically to polyester, oil patterns could be made challenging by varying lengths. The modern balls have made it easier to over power lane conditions with speed and revs. Again, not about fairness.
jpkaina

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_DeDowney
jp,

What would be your estimate of how many games per pair would it to take to alter (and alter how?) a flat pattern as Oldbowler suggests  ?

His idea was a length of 42 feet,  so could you also estimate flat oil at other lengths, and a few different volumes ?

Maybe 35 feet and 26 feet  lengths ?


The big thing that destroys a pattern is SURFACE.

Think about what people do at Nationals. They take charcoal and carve a hole in the pattern to make them play easier. Now take that same dull ball, put it in the hands of a league hack that doesn't know what they're doing and your night will become a nightmare in as quick as a game. I see this happen a lot at my job because people think "the pros are using 500 grit Pitch Blacks, why shouldn't I?"

I'm all for harder conditions. I love being challenged. But for the average league bowler, let them have their walled up conditions. I like to have fun and shoot a zipcode every once in a while :)

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"Tomorrow's just your future yesterday" Craig Ferguson

High Game: 300 x5 (3/20/2014, 5/29/2017, 4/15/2018, SPORT 300 11/13/2018, 12/19/2019)
High Series: 811

In the Bag:
Storm IQ Tour Pearl, Hyroad
Track MX10, 300A, Alias, Ultra Heat, 706A, Paradox Red
Hammer Black Widow Pink
Columbia 300 Scout Urethane, Slate U-Dot
Brunswick Speed Demon, Radical CA$H
Ebonite Maxim, Magnum Seven, Omega LM, Thunderbolt Dual Block, OMNI, Destiny Magenta Solid

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avabob

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Reply with quote  #10 
Agree jpkaina. No amount of oil will stand up to the kinds of surfaces guys put on balls. Even a lot of tour guys were blowing up patterns a few years back. Tour even stopped using the 52 foot pattern because guys were going right to the gutter and blowing the pattern up.


Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #11 
jp said. :

I'm all for harder conditions. I love being challenged. But for the average league bowler, let them have their walled up conditions. I like to have fun and shoot a zipcode every once in a while :)

And likewise would you like to shoot honest numbers on a flat shot that that doesn't change and neither helps or hinders your scores once in a while ?
Would anyone else here like to give that a try.
avabob

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Reply with quote  #12 
There is mo such tning as a pattern that doesn't change. Even in the 70s with hard plastic balls it wasnt uncommon to start outside 10 and end up inside 15 in any kind of format longer than 5 or 6 games. The problem today us you cant even run anything longer than 5 or 5 games without re oiling.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #13 
Len Phantom Nicholson stated on the PBA board that using the volume of oil he used in 1970 and plastic was used the oil would hold up for 8 games . Not positive but I think he was talking 4 bowlers per pair..

Were the shots you’re taking about drier outside avabob,?
avabob

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Reply with quote  #14 
Agree the shot "held up". However it still moved a lot over the course of 10-12games. A lot depended on the lane. Everything was wood, and by 1970 a lot of house werent sanding every year. Not a tour problem because most host houses resurfaced before tour stops. Unless the shot was set up off the corner I usually tried to find where the track would open up. Also still quite a bit of lacquer still in use. It tracked quickly, even when flat oiled.

To reiterate, hold up is a relative term. The equipment available forced us all to play the track area. As s result the track became very well defined quickly, and then we kept following it in. Not like today where the balls allow guys to make their own track and blow the pattern up across a broad area in to 5th arrow.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #15 
Well said, avabob.

It burns me that even today a “relatively” honest , rational and challenging condition could be available but the industry ( what’s left of it ) and the so-called leaders will not allow it.

When you and I were young that’s what was bowling was, - challenging. But not in a confusing , irrational way like today.
Back then if you made a mistake the lane told you what you did wrong.

There was no confusion whether the lane changed and the ball reacted differently or likewise “ WOW, I threw that out the window and it came back for a strike”

All of those records that held up for decades were not set on conditions that allowed for 2 to 3 boards of error to the left or right.

Perceptions in this game are totally out of whack.
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