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Fordman

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Reply with quote  #16 
Sorry TCJ I meant fingers.  One was bloody at the end of the telecast.  Reminded me of Roths thumb in years past.
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Fordman

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Reply with quote  #17 
Maybe accuracy is more important if you throw slower with less revs.  But when it comes to off hits carrying light or even high, very high flush speed and revs are going to get you more strikes.  When the head pin flies off the wall and takes out 5 pins for one bowler and another get a bucket.  Guess which throws it harder with more revs?
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TCJ

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Reply with quote  #18 
Ah, okay. Yeah, I can see the fingers getting bloody from bowling a lot. Mine gets a little on the rough side, but it doesn't bleed. And that only happens when I've gone through a streak of a bowling a lot AND it's winter time and my hands are drier.

As for the speed, I've noticed that. There are some bowlers who throw very little hook and revs but put a lot of speed into it and they get a lot of action with the head pin bouncing around. There seems to be a significant decrease in that when bowling on wooden lanes. As for myself, with my low speed I still get quite a few of those head-pin-off-the-wall shots -- enough so that I've gotten quite a few groans and eye rolls from opponents. More speed would increase those situations quite a bit, no doubt.

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Highs: Series (Sanc.): 794 | Game (Sanc.): 290/257 (LH) | Game (Unsanc.): 300 | Game Sport: 263 Averages: High (RH): 211 | High (LH): 175 | Sport: 166 (56) | Shark(8): 149 | Scorpion(8): 184 | Chameleon(12): 170 | Viper(12): 169 | Cheetah(12): 160 | US Open(3): 175 ___________________________
Buckeye_Nut

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCJ
Fordman, could you elaborate on Belmonte's thumb? I've never noticed that, but it seems strange to me that a thumb would take a beating when it isn't used in the thumb hole.


It wasn't his thumb.  His middle or ring finger was shredded..... looks nasty!   He bowled with it in competition with nothing on it.   He manned up and dealt with it... and won the major all sliced up.


Ball speed...?
I think every bowler has their own speed and they know how fast they can throw it for accuracy.   Trying to force the ball and throw harder than is natural will only cause bigger problems.   My 2 un-educated bowling cents... LOL


djrickysmith

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Reply with quote  #20 
TCJ .. Can you post a video of your approach.  I use a 5 step two handed delivery myself and may be able to offer some tips but I would need to see what your doing.  As far as the toll it takes on your body it doesn't if your doing it correctly.  It's not that you need to contort your body..it's learning how to get sideways.  I don't feel the ball during the release.  Your arm needs to uncoil.  Also I do slide, if you plant you will go over your body.  Balance is key to this style .. the speed will come over time.  One day you'll have that Ohhh that's how to do it and watch out.  I'm 46 going on 47 in April and to say that Belmo won't be bowling like this in his 40's is crazy.  I do catch slack from my bowling buddies but they even admit that I make it look very easy.  It's funny watching them try to do it. 
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BowlingOldies

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Reply with quote  #21 
For what it's worth, the two-hander that was on the Mark Roth-Marshall Holman PBA Doubles Championship today.....not Osku, but the other one...the one who uses his thumb.....has the lowest ball speed of any two-hander I've ever seen.
Fordman

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Reply with quote  #22 
It was slow because he had ear rings.  That will do it every time.  [rolleyes]
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TCJ

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by djrickysmith
TCJ .. Can you post a video of your approach.  I use a 5 step two handed delivery myself and may be able to offer some tips but I would need to see what your doing.  As far as the toll it takes on your body it doesn't if your doing it correctly.  It's not that you need to contort your body..it's learning how to get sideways.  I don't feel the ball during the release.  Your arm needs to uncoil.  Also I do slide, if you plant you will go over your body.  Balance is key to this style .. the speed will come over time.  One day you'll have that Ohhh that's how to do it and watch out.  I'm 46 going on 47 in April and to say that Belmo won't be bowling like this in his 40's is crazy.  I do catch slack from my bowling buddies but they even admit that I make it look very easy.  It's funny watching them try to do it. 


I can't post video because I do not have a video camera or a phone that shoots videos.   Perhaps if I run into BackwardsPro I can have him film me at some point.  

I do slide, but typically not much.  I do not need a long slide because I have a short approach and slow steps.   Balance is usually not too bad.  Occasionally I will fall off to the right.   Today I checked my ball speed at Don Carter's (the only place I know right now that has those things).   With my normal style, I'm clocking 12.5 to 13.5 depending on which ball I use, where I throw it, how much I rev it, and how much side rotation I put on it.   I experimented with using the full approach (normally start at second set of dots), taking longer steps and using a long slide.   My approach is a tad faster but not too much.   My ball speed started coming in at 14.5 to 15.5, again depending on a number of factors.   I have noticed that the extra speed really helps me pick up ten pins, but I also tend to leave more of them at the moment until I learn to adjust.   Using my old target line, the ball will not quite have gotten the angle to kick out the ten pin consistently so I have to work on that.


Note:  One-handed, I maxed at 17.7 mph (spare shot at 7 pin) and bottomed out at 12.5 (16 lb ball that stuck on the thumb).   I'll average around 14.5 mph.

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Highs: Series (Sanc.): 794 | Game (Sanc.): 290/257 (LH) | Game (Unsanc.): 300 | Game Sport: 263 Averages: High (RH): 211 | High (LH): 175 | Sport: 166 (56) | Shark(8): 149 | Scorpion(8): 184 | Chameleon(12): 170 | Viper(12): 169 | Cheetah(12): 160 | US Open(3): 175 ___________________________
TCJ

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowlingOldies
For what it's worth, the two-hander that was on the Mark Roth-Marshall Holman PBA Doubles Championship today.....not Osku, but the other one...the one who uses his thumb.....has the lowest ball speed of any two-hander I've ever seen.


I tried throwing two-handed with my thumb in the ball.  To me it was extremely awkward and actually forced me to throw the ball slower so I could get the thumb out.   I wouldn't be surprised if part of his lower ball speed is due to that. 

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Highs: Series (Sanc.): 794 | Game (Sanc.): 290/257 (LH) | Game (Unsanc.): 300 | Game Sport: 263 Averages: High (RH): 211 | High (LH): 175 | Sport: 166 (56) | Shark(8): 149 | Scorpion(8): 184 | Chameleon(12): 170 | Viper(12): 169 | Cheetah(12): 160 | US Open(3): 175 ___________________________
BowlingOldies

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Reply with quote  #25 
If I could bowl two-handed, I would bowl without my thumb in the ball.  But I can't, so I won't.
TCJ

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Reply with quote  #26 
According to the speed machines, I'm now averaging just under 15 mph (was averaging about 13). Add the typical 2 mph and it puts me around 17 mph. Of course, that's assuming that the speed indicators are accurate. I've bowled on about four different pairs of lanes and they all have been giving pretty much the same readings so even if they aren't accurate for the speed, at least they are consistent. I bowled a set of 9 games with the new speed and tried three different balls in about six different lines and ended with an average of 223. My league average has jumped to 201 and will probably be 202 or 203 after tonight. By comparison, league average the first half (different alley, but very similar lane conditions) was about 193).

I'll see how much it helps in the long run. A few weeks doesn't really mean anything. I've had hot streaks with the old ball speed.

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Highs: Series (Sanc.): 794 | Game (Sanc.): 290/257 (LH) | Game (Unsanc.): 300 | Game Sport: 263 Averages: High (RH): 211 | High (LH): 175 | Sport: 166 (56) | Shark(8): 149 | Scorpion(8): 184 | Chameleon(12): 170 | Viper(12): 169 | Cheetah(12): 160 | US Open(3): 175 ___________________________
Heyimabolwer

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Reply with quote  #27 
I'm 14 and I haven't had any trouble bowling 2 handed other than occasionally missing my mark. And my opinion is that everybody throws the ball at least slightly different. Whatever works the best for you. you should take and fine tune it. You can do that by looking at other people bowl and take a little of everything, from ball speed to ball revs.
TCJ

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Reply with quote  #28 
A lot depends on lane conditions as well.  I am at the point that I can comfortably throw about 17.5 consistently, but where I now bowl they use a 42 foot pattern, so unless I'm bowling way outside or the lanes have burned up, I purposely decrease my speed slightly.   211 average now, for what it's worth.   Generally I bowl three games a week.  I'm fairly certain I could improve more if I practiced.
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Highs: Series (Sanc.): 794 | Game (Sanc.): 290/257 (LH) | Game (Unsanc.): 300 | Game Sport: 263 Averages: High (RH): 211 | High (LH): 175 | Sport: 166 (56) | Shark(8): 149 | Scorpion(8): 184 | Chameleon(12): 170 | Viper(12): 169 | Cheetah(12): 160 | US Open(3): 175 ___________________________
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