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mrbowling300

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pullmyfinger


Short oil was actually as way to combat the urethane. Bowlers were in an uproar and ball companies were smart. The had the short oil balls and pearls ready to go in short time. By trying to combat it, they made it worse. The whole thing was a disaster on all levels. 


Do you know the name Mike Clemence?  Lefty, could hook a blue dot 40 boards on short oil, lol
avabob

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Reply with quote  #77 
I did bowl the Senior Masters at Sun Coast. Forgot that one. Bowled a lot of Senior High Rollers between 06, and 15.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avabob
I did bowl the Senior Masters at Sun Coast. Forgot that one. Bowled a lot of Senior High Rollers between 06, and 15.


I saw you bowl there (2004-5?), knew your name from the PBA board . I liked your game , traditional etc..
Do you still bowl that way or are you hooking the lane 2-handed now ?
avabob

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Reply with quote  #79 
Pretty much the same game, but lack of ball speed is becoming a bigger issue than revs. At 72 I cant compete with the kids no matter what I try.

I had a pretty good run on the late 90s. Power players especially struggled on the fresh strip patterns that ABC put out in the Masters.
Dare

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avabob
Pretty much the same game, but lack of ball speed is becoming a bigger issue than revs. At 72 I cant compete with the kids no matter what I try.

I had a pretty good run on the late 90s. Power players especially struggled on the fresh strip patterns that ABC put out in the Masters.



what's your ball speed now compared to what it was? I noticed
my ball speed on the scorers went down almost 1 mph from the
age of 70 to 71.

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avabob

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Reply with quote  #81 
In 2010 I was 17.2 thru the heads and 14.3 at the pins on CATS. I was 62. Not sure now but I think I was about 15 in the heads in Feb on the Bowler ID that Virtue runs in Phoenix. However I wasnt throwing the ball well.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #82 
I guess you all know by now why I believe the top seed had an unfair advantage in this World’s final.

Well, there was definitely a booby trap of sorts that developed on that pair of lanes . Pretty good confidence inflator . I watched the qualifying and saw nothing like that.
The experts in the the booth even seemed confused.

Was it done intentionally ? I don’t know ?
The PBA is in the entertainment business and it did result in a great side story.
Some have said in the past that they endeavor to “make” stars of their choosing but who knows ?

While the semi seeds were getting lost and loster , searching for a line and getting one unexpected reaction after another , the top seed gets to come in with a practice game to figure out how to get around the “trap” area or the best way to get through it,
I thought it was quite Baaa’d.
Pullmyfinger

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Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbowling300


Do you know the name Mike Clemence?  Lefty, could hook a blue dot 40 boards on short oil, lol


I do! Great bowler. 
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pullmyfinger


I do! Great bowler. 


The original short oil concept was a good idea and could have maintained integrity for the bowling game.
Resin balls did not work well on legitimate short oil and the concept was soon bastardized and integrity was history .

Did your lefty friend ever bowl on oil-less lanes ?
He probably could have hooked the ball 50 boards .
avabob

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Reply with quote  #85 
Just to be historically correct, short oil was mandated in around 1984, although many lane men were going relatively short and stripping back ends for several years prior. The irony was that lane men were trying to combat carry down, and get scores up, while ABC mandate was about getting scores down. In any event, short oil combined with the urethane, ball set up an environment that rewarded the crank to the bank style that dominated the 80s.

Resin ball wasnt introduced until early 1992, 3 years after the short oil mandate was discontinued. Biggest advantage of resin was that it cut through carrydown beter than urethane.

Bowling had always been an environmental game. Shellac to lacquer was a major environmental change, as was lacquer to urethane finish and synthetic lanes. Polyester ball had been around since 1960, but only became an advantage over rubber on the harder urethane finishes that started to predominate around 1970.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #86 
I  can't remember any mandate for short oil in the 80's  ?

I remember a ton of discussion . It seemed like it was talked, about for 10 years,

I first heard it proposed by Bill Taylor.

He argued that if oiling  short enough , a walled lane would not have the ability to create enough of an an "area"  that would aid in steering the ball to the head pin.
I think he wanted 18 ft, of oil.

Some argued that oil could be no longer than 12 ft , to combat a walled condition.

After ABC pondered for years they eventually came out with the LDD ,"Limited Distance Dressing " and a 26 ft distance was mandated. (Many millions of ball of the month balls were sold while they pondered)
I thought that rule was 1990 -1992  ?

I was ok with the 26 ft,  but it included the 3 unit rule which allowed for a wall and there was no rule for lane cleaning .
,
Taylor had argued that a rule should include  "no oil to be found past the limited number of feet"  or honor scores would not count.
ABC did not agree ,

So lane crews  walled the lanes at 26 ft and with oil carry down they became a 30 ft wall the following day , and a 35 ft wall and a 40 ft wall and so on.

And eventually they cleaned the lanes. The day following the cleaning was the day that spoiled house bowlers didn't bowl because of the fresh shot.

Honor scores skyrocketed on a rule that was supposed to protect Bowling's integrity.

This was SoCal,  I found Las Vegas  centers about the same,
avabob

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Reply with quote  #87 
I think you may have gotten 2 different rules mixed up. Limited Distance Dressing was introduced around 1985. It wasn't required if you were willing to flat oil gutter to gutter. Few opted for the flat oil. Under LDD you could wall them to the max but oil including buff out was limited to 26, and later 24 feet. Most lane men did in fact allow the oil to carry down the middle on LDD. The problem was that carry down either made transitions unplayable on flatter patterns, or became a dead wall on on tbe already walled short patterns. This rule was replaced by the so called System of Bowling in 1989. This rule had no distance requirement but did require at least 3 units outside for the length of the pattern including buff out. SOS was actually a fairly reasonable requirement until the resin ball was introduced. The resins were able to open up the pattern on 3 units pretty much negating any potential out of bounds that had existed for urethane balls on 3 units.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #88 

Ava bob ,

 I cannot disagree with your descriptions of those conditions from back then.

re: Bowl , com June 23, 2019 article, the 3 unit rule was suspended .

It was instituted in 1992,, but exact dates are not what is important, really.

More relevant is the reasons and the outcomes of these rules.

 3 units was like nothing. Even using urethane and /or plastic. And as you said it became more wide open.

 Basically the rule was dropped because modern balls deplete oil so much that that even

maximum amounts of oil ( 80 -100 units) anywhere on the “pattern” could be sucked off the lane as to leave less than 3 units and not comply with the rule.

Also , ALL LANE INSPECTIONS ARE NO LONGER REQUIRED.

 

This is Bizzaro mentality , even for ABC / USBC ?

Once again, when it is so painfully obvious that a fairness and integrity problem exists

with the Lanes / Balls/ Oils environment they still refuse to scale back on any aspect to create an HONEST and FAIR environment .

 

The article also mentions the upcoming rule change limiting weight holes and allowing

the crazy idea that modern balls need more than 1 oz, on side, finger or thumb imbalance.

 

I cannot believe this balance rule has any purpose other than to boost ball sales.

I do not see filling a weight hole to have effect on a ball motion other than a negative effect overall.

Most bowlers will have to plug and re-drill the entire ball for it to maintain a desired ball motion .

 

I’ll say this again , the last rule change the ABC / USBC enacted that maintained integrity was in 1975

when soakers and balls under 75 hardness were outlawed . No grandfathered balls allowed.

For modern bowlers to understand this , those old time cheater balls allowed for 1 to 3 more boards of hook for most bowlers on most lane conditions of the day. Compared to 10 to 35 extra boards of hook today’s cheater balls get for most bowlers.

 

The 2000 Sport Condition fiasco could have been a boost to integrity for us , but once again ABC / USBC missed  ( or ignored) a chance to do so.

 

No limit on oil volume or distance , only on the ratio . No limit on balls

 

A limit on oil volume could have made plastic the ball of choice or a limit on artificially performing balls could have led to a desire for lower oil volumes.

And this was an optional format, a choice for an honest game or stick with the artificial mess.

 

The format was most likely designed to fail.

 This organizations motives have been exposed for 45 years.

Anyone remember the PBA Sport condition season ? 2001 ??

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