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Dare

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Reply with quote  #31 
Now it's nothing to see a old guy[I'll be 71 in a week} throw a slow
suitcase ball that rolls right to the pocket. Ever now and then they'll
pop a big game.

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avabob

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Reply with quote  #32 
It has never been about hitting the pocket. I am 72 and pocket has always been easy on house shots. It is carry that becomes the issue
Dare

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Reply with quote  #33 
It has never been about hitting the pocket. I am 72 and pocket has always been easy on house shots. It is carry that becomes the issue [/QUOT



Carry and making tens is the game now. I noticed the last year
my speed has dropped from 15 to around 14. I suppose every year 
from now on will see a drop in speed.....if the lanes ever open

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Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #34 
Avabob even though they had lanes blocked in the 70s/80s, our great sport was still 15 times harder than it is now. These wall-babies and some of these youngsters nowadays who try to justify doing nothing but putting up honor scores in league, then trying to say they’re great bowlers when they’ve hardly ever bowled in tough shot tournaments or bowled back in the day need their stupid heads examined. To hell with the arrogant losers in bowling, this is just why the participation rate in scratch tournaments has gone down because of these losers.
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avabob

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Reply with quote  #35 
Resin balls enhanced carry a lot, thus the proliferation of 300s and 800s. However they also broke down patterns much quicker making walls play tougher, and flat patterns open up better. Prior to resin, I never shot 300 with less than a 700 series. In resin era it became common.

80s were not a good era for the game. Stand left and throw right worked almost everywhere. Spare shooting was generally abysmal for all the cup wristers out there.

Also, it has generally been my experience that guys who say the game is too easy, really mean it is too easy for the other guy.
Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #36 
Avabob you’re crazy huh. The 80s were a great era for our great sport of bowling. You say stand left and throw right worked almost everywhere and that wasn’t true at all. You must be basing it on where you lived and bowled at locally in the 80s. I’m originally from Buffalo, NY which was the bowling capital of the world from 1960 to 89. Back there and all over the East Coast in the 80s, it wasn’t nearly as easy or high scoring as it now. THAT’S THE DARN TRUTH. I was in the Marine Corps fromm1984-88 and bowling wasn’t easy or as high scoring back then as it is now. I won a couple of scratch tournaments overseas and the scores were low. I ran an 8-gamer in Buffalo, New York back in 1989 and I got a turnout of 70 entries. I paid 1 out of 4 paying 17 places and the low to cash was a -55. I don’t understand your thinking about our great sport but, you’re entitled to your opinion. Urethane did increase scores a bit more compared to rubber and plastic but, it didn’t send scores through the roof like this steroid resin garbage and these new lane surfaces did. THAT’S THE TRUTH WHICH I KNOW SOME OF US CAN’T HANDLE, ESPECIALLY THESE ARROGANT WALL-BABIES LIKE THE FAT PENGUIN WHO WORKS IN A PRO SHOP IN RIVERSIDE COUNTY, CAL!
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avabob

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Reply with quote  #37 
Short oil blocks were the norm from 84 to 89. I wasnt very competitive in that environment, but not blaming the lanes or balls.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #38 
I'd like to reply to the sidetracked topics here but first about the step ladder final.
I guess none of you watched closely the qualifying and the "made for TV" final.
The PBA did something for the finals that was similar to what they did to the lefties years ago to keep them from scoring when they had earned more cash than their "left vs right parity" computer program said they should , ask John Petraglia about that i,, it had something to to do with a basketball.
The way the TV pair "transistioned" was totally bizarre , something was completely out of whack, the guys just got lost and more lost.
Every time they made the wrong "guess" the cost was dear. And even a very good rational guess could likely turn out wrong.
If only they could have taken a few practice shots on that "un-natural" transition to find a way to score the way they did on the previous few days.
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Reply with quote  #39 
Bob if the tv lanes were very challenging and threw the bowlers for a curve, then that’s great because that’s how scratch bowling and pro bowling should be 85% of the time. It should be like it was in the 60s/70s/80s “ A THINKING MAN AND WOMANS SPORT AND NOT NONE OF THIS CLOSE YOUR EYES AND THROW STRIKES GARBAGE”, like there’s too much of nowadays. I’ll agree the shot needs to be fair always on both sides of the lanes but, at the same time don’t have a ridiculous high-scoring shot out there majority of time because that’s not real bowling!
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Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #40 
  • P.J.
  • The lanes were challenging ?

    The first game scores were  260's to a 250's ?  As challenging, not so much;  but as challenging as they had been for the entire tournament up to the finals.

    Then the lanes started a very unnatural "transition".  I say "unnatural" because normally when  the lanes are done honestly . these guys can figure it out, that's what they do every week and that's why they excel on today's patterns.
    They know the patterns and they know how they will transition .

    For this stepladder it seems that something was done to the pattern to make them weirdly unpredictable as play progressed and making moves on the lane was a total guessing game. No premium on repeating shots.

    As mentioned before , something similar was done to the lefties for at least an entire season,

    Soon after attending the Players vs, the PBA  lawsuit trial and after hearing testimony that exposed the PBA scoring manipulation practices , one usually very successful bowler quit the PBA , He said he was going crazy wondering if he was bowline good or bad because of his performance or was it the " Lane man" ? He recentl returned to Senior tour play.

    If Simonsen could have called  a "time out" and taken some practice shots to find a somewhat more predictable line to play , he may have had a chance. He might have been able to get by with one bad guess but not two bad guesses in only 10 frames.

    Your right , competitive bowling should be challenging but in an honest environment that requires a repetitive performance over all parts of a bowling delivery.

    Repeating shots, and that means : to.repeat speed, accuracy, release and timing and also hitting a true "pocket" for a strike should  not just have some value , but the most value again.

    That type of a game has not been around  since 1960 really. In the 60's there were only a few centers (in SoCal)  that knew how to create an artificial scoring condition, on the others
  • Hitting the pocket was not "easy" .
    Through the 70's about 30% to 40% of centers were "making " high scores.

    Through the 80's at least 80% were serving up easy lanes,
    Proprietors felt they had to make lanes as easy as possible or their now spoiled bowlers would head on down the street to an easier scoring center.

    Add to the easy lanes  the voided pins that now fly as high 24 inches above the pin deck, trampoline type gutters that return those pins horizontally back across the pin deck and turn  an  actual "wild" shot into an "exciting" wall shot strike,
    Who needs a real pocket hit any more ? 
    Who can even recognize an legitimate accurate shot today ?
Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #41 
I dig where you’re coming from Bob. I also thought it was screwed up the way Belmo’s loser a*# tried throwing backups on the left side of the lane during warm up at an event earlier this year, so he could mess up Buturff’s track. Kirk Von Krueger jumped on him about that. The PBA has gotten soft and ridiculous in the last 15-17 years. They need to start running it the way it was ran back in the 70s and 80s. The top 5 tv finals and no more of this top 4 garbage. Do away with these animal patterns and bring back the graph, gutter- to -gutter flat shots. No more of thisXmas tree shot crap. No more blue oil either. They call themselves being creative but, all they’re doing is making it easier for the bowlers to get to the pocket when they dress the lanes this way. If theyd dress the lanes like they did even in the 80s and 90s without these Xmas tree shots, half of these guys wouldn’t be able to hit the broad side of a barn huh. Svesson, Kyle Troup, Simonsen and Tacky Tackett would be lost.
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Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #42 
Do you see now how the top seed had such an advantage in this step ladder ?
Anyone ?
Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #43 
Once again Bob, if the PBA would go back to putting out nothing but flat oil all the way across shots like they did back in the 60s/70s/80s, nobody not even the top seed would have “AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE “! I don’t care whether it’s 24 feet gutter-to-gutter or 50 feet gutter-to-gutter, flat heavy oil means just what it says. There’s none of this Xmas tree garbage or old Cheetah leaving the gutters dry. The machine has the program to lay out flat shots, some of these pros today as well as these pathetic/arrogant wall-babies don’t want to be challenged to have to learn what real bowling is about!
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avabob

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Reply with quote  #44 
PBA never PREDOMINATELY used flat patterns. Going clear back to Amendment 4 rule in the late 70s. PBA refused to sanction rather than follow ABC rule.
Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #45 
Avabob I understand what you’re saying but, compared to some of the bs shots that are out here now, the PBA was using flat shots back in the 70s and 80s. The lane men back in the 70s used the spray gun and smeared it evenly from gutter-to-guttter. After the oiling machine was invented in the 80s, the shot was measured and became even more flat than it was in the 70s. I know this for a fact, because just like yourself I bowled in the 70s as well. Bo Burton used to walk down and out onto the lanes right before the telecast at times, to show the tv viewers how far down the lanes the oil went EVENLY GUTTER-TO-GUTTER! The bottom line, the shots that were laid out back in the 70s/80s and early early 90s need to be laid out today.
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