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themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #16 
I was about to reply and say something along the lines of how Belmo is inherently no different than Roth was when he hit the scene but avabob beat me to the punch.

I'm personally not a fan of the 2-handed style or Belmo...he kinds rubs me the wrong way and it seems to me that the 2-handed delivery isn't a "lifelong" way to bowl...at some age it's not going to be an option anymore.  Having said that, I can't deny that Belmo is the best bowler of his generation...his long list of accomplishments is testament to that.  He's not cheating, just doing things in a new and innovative way (like Roth did) that's getting results (like Roth did). 
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #17 
Avabob, that “environment” would have favored you also, if you were last to come on the lanes in that stepladder. Did you watch the qualifying, match play?
Did you listen to the commentary?

If nothing else it calls for a rule change since more transparency is a no-no for the PBA.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #18 
mrfreeze , I did not say JB cheated .
avabob

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Reply with quote  #19 
As a 72 year old over the hill stroker, no environment favors me anymore.

The problem we have had for 20 years is that the balls allow most guys to play the lanes anywhere they want regardless of the oil pattern. You cant put enough oil out to keep guys from trashing the pattern in a few games. Long formats are a thing of the distant past
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #20 
Bob, A.S. Shot 190, you would have had your best shot at it.
Bob_DeDowney

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Reply with quote  #21 
The stepladder 5 averaged over 240  for the tournament.

What happened in that final ?
Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #22 
To me the PBA isn’t cheating for Belmo. The damn cheating got started, back in 1991 when these stupid “steroid reactive” resin balls came out. Once upon a time the house shot was a tough shot. Nowadays, the average house shot is pathetic, ridiculous and not much of a challenge which ISNT REAL BOWLING. It shouldn’t have never gotten to where if you don’t oil a certain way or dress the lanes a certain way, the scores will go through the roof. I bowled in the 70s winning scratch tournaments as a junior with plastic and rubber. I bowled as an adult in the 80s winning scratch tournaments as an adult with plastic, rubber and urethane. The PBA ought to have “plastic ball only events 4-5 times a year, to not only make it more interesting but, to cut down on this bs of some of these youngsters only winning because of these steroid balls.
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themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #23 
The PBA won't have more plastic ball events because plastic balls don't generate nearly as much profit for the ball makers as resin.  There's a reason the bowlers have sponsor's names on their shirts and their ENTIRE arsenal (not just the ball they're currently throwing) is prominently mentioned. 

I don't disagree with you about how bowling has changed over the years...it's one of the reasons I primarily throw only urethane and bowl in a seriously old center with 80 year old wood lanes...we love the challenge!  However, the industry has changed and honestly, if centers don't put out scoreable shots, bowlers will leave.  I asked the manager of an "easy" center I used to bowl in why he didn't put out a tougher shot and his reply was "bowlers don't want to come out here and be miserable".  Good or bad, what he said is correct for about 95% of league bowlers.
Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #24 
You’re only speaking the truth about the PBA not wanting to have anymore plastic ball events. The ball companies would still make a profit, it would only be 4-5 events a year plastic only. They could do that or make it urethane only 4-5 events a year. You also hit it on the buzzer about the owners not wanting to make the shot tougher. USBC is in the process of drifting more towards my idea, which is put down tough-low scoring shots only for scratch leagues and scratch tournaments. In other words, let the wall-babies with weak-ass attitudes and floor-dumpers bowl in their little handicap leagues. If you want to join us “HEAVY HITTERS AND REAL BOWLERS”, you come and bowl scratch on truer, challenging conditions. There’s an a-hole out here in SoCal who I knicknamed Kotexman, because whenever he gets on a tough condition, he needs a Kotex cause he bleeds lol lmao. The loser has 2 PBA Regional titles but they were on Cheetah. He can’t bowl on the heavier oil conditions and of course he’s in his mid 30s old enough to be my son and another recipient of “steroid reactive”. He didn’t bowl in the 60s/70s or 80s winning scratch events like some of us did. About 4 years ago, this loser tried telling me his poop doesn’t stink and I told him to go to hell. This is the mentality of today’s average wall-baby, which has hurt our great sport!
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Patrick J Yarns
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Reply with quote  #25 
The only trouble with when the PBA had the plastic ball events was they
scuffed the balls up and dressed the lanes up where the scores were still
inflated. No messing with the balls and no walled shot and it would be
enjoyable....for a few

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Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #26 
I agree totally with you on not allowing the plastic balls to be sanded. At a couple of those Mark Roth plastic ball PBA events in 2009 & 2010, the scores weren’t that high. Jeff Carter showed what he was really made of winning it. If you’re going to win your first, do it with plastic. If they were to have 4-5 plastic ball only events a year, Svesson, Troup and Tacky Tackett would be on that list of pros that would fall on their face especially if they made it to where it was 36 to 38 flat lol, plastic only.
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Patrick J Yarns
avabob

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Reply with quote  #27 
Please dont let this turn into the old PBA forum with guys screaming about diseased cheaters. The balls are only one part of the environment.

I won my first scratch tournament 54 years ago throwing hard rubber. I won multiple scratch tournaments in the 70s throwing white dots and yellow dots. I averaged as high as 215 during this era. I averaged as high as 229 during the 80s throwing urethane, and won tournaments with blue hammers. In the 90s I won scratch tournaments throwing various resin balls.

Only era I really struggled was the 80s. My own fault because I didnt adjust my game to the short oil walls . Bottom line, every era required slightly different releases to be totally successful, but predominant condition wad never flat oil
Beeswaxhead

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Reply with quote  #28 
We’re not turning it into the old forum of people screaming about diseased cheaters. I’m only speaking the truth avabob. I’m in the same category as you. I won my first scratch tournament in 1977, using an Ebonite Magnum 6/pumpkin colored rubber ball. The same one the great great Earl Anthony used to use. I had my share of success with urethane as well as rubber/plastic, in the 80s bowling in scratch events. The truth is reactive resin balls really hurt our sport. The only true test of ability nowadays is when they put out a very tough, low-scoring challenging shot. Even still it’s not nowhere half as tough or truer test of ability in our great sport of bowling, as it was in the 60s/70s/80s. I had a young 20 something year old punk try to tell me back in 2014, that bowling is a lot harder now than it was in the 70s. I jumped in his “*^ in front of everyone belittling him, letting him know that’s bs and he had no right making stupid comments like that, when he didn’t even bowl back then. My point is, these idiots that give credit to these bowlers that don’t deserve it really need to grow up. How in the hell can someone sit up and say “ This person is so great because they average 220 in league, but they’ve hardly ever bowled tournaments “! That’s not a real bowler and that’s the truth.
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themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #29 
Ya know, it's one thing to read about something of a historical nature, but it's another thing to have personally experienced history.  As such it's hard for me to fault a younger bowler for thinking that bowling is harder now than it used to be.  They're probably basing it off of the fact that we didn't need to know about pin distance and CG and PAP and all that crap back when we were all throwing pancake block boulders.  [rofl]

I think a lot of us here are old enough to have experienced how bowling has changed over the decades...it's gotten easier in some respects and more complicated in others, and we're all going to have our own opinions on whether these changes are good or bad.  That's true of pretty much everything in life though, isn't it?
avabob

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Reply with quote  #30 
Bowling us different, but not easier. In one respect it seems easier watching power players carve out their own shot regardless of the oil pattern. In another respect it is tougher because that same ability to carve out a pattern often results in players blowing up the pattern in transition for everyone.

One respect I wont concede. Lanes were walled up in the 70s and 80s making the shot to the pocket easier in transition than it is today because the balls didnt over power the patterns, thus more guys had to play the shot. Hitting power of the modern balls is too great. At the highest levels the game might be better with nothing but hard shiny non reactive equipment. I say might, because the laws of unintended consequences have come into play many times as bowling technology evolved.
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