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Tamtrooper

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amf300bowler
I would like to see them BANNED altogether. It's never 100% fair. You're never bowling you opponent under the exact same conditions. You can't pre-play a baseball or football game. The same should be for bowling.

You signed up for 33 weeks on Tuesday at 7:00pm. Can't make it? You forfeit. End of story.


Couldn't agree more.  So much drama and shenanigans with pre and post bowling--not worth it.

wiredone234

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbowling300
thanks...keep us posted and good luck...hopefully your league rules addresses this.


17. POSTPONEMENTS/PRE-BOWLS - Pre-bowling and post-bowling by teams will be allowed.

  1. Provided the SECRETARY and the OPPOSING TEAM CAPTAIN are notified 48 hours prior to the scheduled league time, except in cases of emergencies.
  2. It is the responsibility of the team pre-bowling or post-bowling to notify the league Secretary, and the Secretary's responsibility to notify the opposing team.
  3. The unopposed team may bowl their regularly scheduled games, unless both teams prefer to bowl at the same time on another day.
  4. If the scheduled lanes are not available, the Board of Directors agrees that any pair of lanes can be used at the discretion of the Bowling Center.
  5. All pre-bowled or post-bowled games will be bowled at a time that is convenient to both the league and center, ONLY BY RESERVATION made with the Bowling Center by the LEAGUE SECRETARY.
  6. No Friday or Saturdays after 5:00pm unless it is an emergency case.
  7. All make-ups must be bowled within 2 weeks or before the next position round, whichever comes first, except in cases of emergencies.
  8. The league will not allow make-ups or pre-bowled games to be bowled for position rounds unless approved by the Board of Directors.
  9. The opposing team will not see pre-bowled or post-bowled scores, except after each game. Honor scores bowled during pre-bowl or post-bowled games unopposed are not eligible for recognition.

 

Refer to rule #2

 

2. MANAGEMENT - The league's Board of Directors will be comprised of all team captains and league officers.

To my knowledge (all team captains were not notified)
Refer to rule 17-8 then rule 2. The ones who made the decision were the Sec.,pres., v-p.

opinions

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Fordman

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Reply with quote  #18 
I don't think it is possible to notify all league capt. to get approval for a pre-bowl to be scheduled.  Maybe if it is a 4 team family league.
Calling 24 people on cell phones is never going to happen.  I have tried many times to get in touch with people and had no luck at all.

I agree that unless someone is dead or on their death bed, no postponement.  Bowl or forfeit.

Wire I am assuming that #17 is your league bylaw.  You can not refuse postponements for good reason.

Why do people schedule tournaments on the same day as regular bowling night and expect the league to bend over and kiss their A$$?

We can carry up to "8" bowlers to get our 5 every week.  We changed the number of bowlers needed to bowl from 3 to 2 and still get request for missing because of state tournaments. 

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Fordman

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Reply with quote  #19 
I bet that there are more problems with the Pre-Post bowling rules than any other in league bowling.  Second would be crying about how much handicap.
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1VegasBowler

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Reply with quote  #20 
Like most everybody here, I too like to bowl in tournaments. BUT, I do so when it's not going to interfere with my regular leagues, unless it happens to be a PBA Regional, and since PBA Regional Tournaments don't happen all that often here in Vegas the 1 week I might miss my regular bowling night isn't going to hurt.

I choose to bowl on Monday & Wednesday because there are no conflicts with anything.

I've been bowling on Monday & Wednesday nights since September and I have missed only 1 night, and that was because the wife got sick.

When I commit myself for any activity, it is because I can make it every single time for however many weeks it is. But there are some that just get tired of it or just want a night off, and I don't agree with that.

If you are going to participate in tournaments that are in conflict with the regular bowling, then change your regular bowling nights. If you don't want to change, then accept the consequences handed down by the league and forfeit the night.

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khy102

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Reply with quote  #21 
Every league I've been involved in has allowed pre-bowling.  There is a Men's Social league that didn't allow it at all, which some former teammates wanted me to bowl in.  I was working two jobs at the time and couldn't commit to having a Tuesday night off, at the time.  That year was when one of the Hurricanes/Tropical Storms made it's way up north to us and caused a lot of problems.  Some people came in to bowl, and others asked to bowl a few nights later.  President of the league had a fit and was more concerned about the bowling than other peoples' safety.  They changed the rule to each team gets 5 pre-bowls a season, or 1 per person pretty much.  But after reading rule 11b, this should never have been an issue, right?

I do occasionally pre-bowl, but I'm not a fan of it.  When bowling by myself, I have pacing issues.  I'll knock out my 3 games in under half an hour, or get stuck next to people who have never bowled in their life it seems, and totally get in my head.  One of my teammates hates it, unless he has to, then he's usually fine with it, but it's a very rare occasion.  We just adopted the no pre-bowling in position rounds, but I believe we did have that at one point.  Not sure what happened there.

We also had an issue with our league two seasons ago with a sub pre-bowling.  That really ticked off my teammate.  She was my daughters coach and I saw her the following Saturday and found out what happened.  The person she was subbing for got Tennis Elbow, and couldn't bowl for a number of months.  So she was pretty much going to bowl for him the rest of the year.  But on paper it just looked very shady.  Didn't go over too well with our team.  Added subs can't pre-bowl to the rules for the following year, just in case.
Dare

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Reply with quote  #22 
Last year the team we were supposed to bowl didn't show up,no
call or anything.We thought we would get the 3 games by forfeit.
Seems there's a rule you have to bowl with in 10% of your average to
win.Still I can't figure out how a team forfeiting can beat you.No one
got the wins in the games we didn't come within the 10%.

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khy102

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Reply with quote  #23 
Also as far is it goes for post-bowling.  Like the incident with the storm I'd be ok with if most teams had to post-bowl.  But you were always allowed to post-bowl it never went toward your team's standings.  It just went towards your average.
Fordman

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Reply with quote  #24 
We have never allowed individual bowling and never will.  Team or nothing.
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themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare
Last year the team we were supposed to bowl didn't show up,no
call or anything.We thought we would get the 3 games by forfeit.
Seems there's a rule you have to bowl with in 10% of your average to
win.Still I can't figure out how a team forfeiting can beat you.No one
got the wins in the games we didn't come within the 10%.


The official USBC rule is that you have to bowl (average-10) pins per bowler to win points against a team that doesn't show up (or doesn't have enough bowlers to field a legal team).  So if you have an average of 150, you need to bowl at least 140 to win.   If all 5 people on your team average 150, then as a team, you need to bowl 700 to win (750-50).

The rule is in place to prevent one team helping another out by not showing up to bowl them, thus allowing the team to win all of the points automatically. 


Fordman

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Reply with quote  #26 
It is legal for a league to adopt a bylaw that states a different number.  It could be a solid number of a percentage.  The 10 pin rule seems the fairest buy maybe a bowler who averaged 230 rather than a bowler who averaged 130 would find its fairness different. 
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wiredone234

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordman
I don't think it is possible to notify all league capt. to get approval for a pre-bowl to be scheduled.  Maybe if it is a 4 team family league.
Calling 24 people on cell phones is never going to happen.  I have tried many times to get in touch with people and had no luck at all.

I agree that unless someone is dead or on their death bed, no postponement.  Bowl or forfeit.

Wire I am assuming that #17 is your league bylaw.  You can not refuse postponements for good reason.

Why do people schedule tournaments on the same day as regular bowling night and expect the league to bend over and kiss their A$$?

We can carry up to "8" bowlers to get our 5 every week.  We changed the number of bowlers needed to bowl from 3 to 2 and still get request for missing because of state tournaments. 


Update: meeting went well. It was decided that both teams would get all points since the board was not notified. The point of the meeting was to bring to light the amount of time this team had to pLan and to pre bowl and they ask it at last minute.

Secretary made the motion to take the point money out of secretary fund since it was so generous. I think two teams opposed but they are tight knit with the prebowlers. Alley wanted to charge $96 to rebowl. So we went by usbc rules to clarify everything on prebowling but the two rules can contradict each other.

As for contacting the captains all they had to do was go lane to lane or call a quick meeting behind the center pair of the league and have a quick discussion. The team protesting was willing to bowl with the pre bowl team but was notified too late.

Thanks for all input.

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Fordman

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Reply with quote  #28 
What did the center want to charge $96 for?  Two teams bowling?  That is outlandish.  What a bunch of crooks.  Our center never charges for post or Pre bowling.   
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SpinBowler300

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Reply with quote  #29 
>> It was decided that both teams would get all points since the board was not notified.

Uh, there is no way that is legal in the USBC rule book. You can't "just give" teams all the points. Points have to be earned.



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