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SpinBowler300

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Reply with quote  #1 
I've complained about my Monday night league secretary on here before, but yesterday he took the cake. Here's how:

  1. Last week a team bowled with only 2 guys. Yes, the two guys DID bowl during our regularly scheduled league time. However, since they knew they were not going to win the points for the game, they put down that all 5 guys were absent. They were "pacing" on their own bowling team. Sorry, but this is not LEGAL. 
  2. The other team on the same pair had to bowl within 50 pins of their team average to get the points. We have a 2-2-2-3 system for 9 points a night. Their record on the standing sheet after the 1st week was 3 - 6. When my team captain asked how they could be 3 - 6, he gave this totally straight faced reply, "They lost all of the games, but won totals."
So how do you pace in your own league and how do you win totals when you won zero games?

This guy has got to go. However, nobody else seems to care except me and my team captain. No way I would win an election to replace this guy. Too many people think he does a great job. I do wish I could though.

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Dare

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Reply with quote  #2 
I think if the other teams forfeits they can't win any points but
you can lose points....happened to us

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Dare

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Reply with quote  #3 
PS  I'd find another league next year  


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Fordman

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Reply with quote  #4 
1st an absent team can not win any points.  The fact that they had 2 bowlers bowl doesn't matter their scores do not count.  I would have no problem letting them pace.  It would have no effect on anything except if they wanted to get into mystery or high game etc.  Their scores would not go into the record.  I would like you to find out his reasoning o how on how they won totals but did not win any games, that is a puzzler.

The pacers are no big deal in my opinion.

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BowlingOldies

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Reply with quote  #5 
If I were in your situation, I would call USBC in Arlington.  (817) 385-8200.  Get clarification on what remedies are available to you.
mrbowling300

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Reply with quote  #6 
Or at least call Mark Martin at the Detroit USBC office
DanFielding

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Reply with quote  #7 

I really hate leagues that are run by people that are oblivious to the rules (or choose to ignore them) this is from the USBC rulebook online.  Emphasis is mine

When a team is bowling in a known forfeit situation, the following procedures shall apply:

1. The forfeiting team is not to receive any point(s).
2. Unless the league rules have stated another number, to earn the point(s):
a. An individual must bowl at least his/her average less ten (10) pins.
b. Teams must bowl at least the team average less ten (10) pins per player.
3.
Points not won by the individual and/or team for failing to bowl the prescribed score should be  recorded on the standing sheet as “unearned” points.
4. The following applies to players on the forfeiting team:
    a. Those who are present may bowl, but the scores shall not be included in the team’s total pins.
b. Scores bowled in accordance with this procedure shall be counted toward averages and qualifyfor league prizes, unless the league rules state otherwise.
c. Scores shall qualify for USBC awards.
NOTE
When leagues include series totals in points won and a team forfeits one or more games in
a series, that team shall receive a zero for the games it forfeits in deciding the winner of the
series point

Before the start of every season the local HQ (Greater Cleveland) has a meeting for League Presidents and Secretaries to pick up supplies and go over stuff.  Each year we hear about leagues that get ripped off by the the Treasurer and they don't get their money back because the President check the account or proper procedures aren't followed.  There are also secretaries that turn in ALL of the season's awards at the end of the year at once!  Secretaries don't turn in end of average reports, etc.  I tell them that the problem is the people that actually go to the meeting aren't the problem, it's the officers that don't, they are the folks that don't know what they're doing.


Fordman

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Reply with quote  #8 
Sorry Dan I guess I over looked the fact that our bylaws don't allow any pacer scores to be entered into the records.  We have had this rule for at least 25 yrs.  The other part of the rule is just common sense.

Our center collects all the lineage and gives me a receipt each week.  I get the money envelopes and also keep track of what every bowler has paid each and every week.  Each month I get a bank statement from the center.  Each league has a separate account.  The league President goes over each and every Bank statement each month and I have him sign and date it. 

Keith I guess I should have posted something about Mark Martin losing his Father about a week ago.  Mr. Martin was 89 years old.

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DanFielding

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Reply with quote  #9 
I wasn't implying you didn't know the rules, I was stating a generality.

The problem with these types of league are:
1.  Most people on the league don't know the rules themselves
2.  The bowlers think their officers are doing a TREMENDOUS job because they don't know any better
3.  Nobody else wants to do it
4.  The people that are on the league that are aware of how poorly it is run leave that league because they can't deal with it anymore or, they would never get elected to office to clean up the mess.

I was a part timer on a league here that had 34 5 man teams that was for the 2012-2013 season.  This year it has 18 teams.  They've lost half the teams in less than three seasons!  That doesn't happen by accident. 

The last week of the season was a "singles" tournament while the top teams bowled for the championship.  The winner of this "Tournament" received more prize money for a single night than a member of the championship team did for bowling ever week.  They ain't right!  Being a part timer I didn't think it was place to rock the boat too much.  I found it EXTREMELY coincidental that the 50/50 winner got exactly $200 every week.  So you're telling me that 34 5 man teams (170 bowlers) bought the exact same amount of tickets each week?  They also sold to the women's league in the house.  On top of that, there was never a prize list passed out! 

The following year I ran into another bowler that was on that league that wasn't any longer.  I asked him why he quit and without coming right out and saying it, he thought the league was being ripped off (which was my thought as well).  You would think a huge men's league would have a bunch of people questioning how things are done but I guess not, see my four points above for reasons why.

Rant over.  I feel better now
Fordman

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Reply with quote  #10 
Where I bowl the center runs about half of the leagues.  They are the Sec. Treas. The league elects a President who is supposed to watch out for them.  The center keeps a very keen eye on the other leagues.  If they see a league that is being ripped off by the officers they will tell the league it isn't going to let them come back next year.  The thing is they will start a new league and invite the bowlers back with proper management.  The bowlers aren't all stupid and realize what is going on and are more than willing to come back.  They will not put up with officers who are crooks.  They have a representative attend every organizational meeting.  They can also invite a Assn. rep to be present.
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Dare

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Reply with quote  #11 
AMF...why don't you print this page up and give it to
your secretary to read.Might change his ways

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CObowler

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Reply with quote  #12 
Back to the original question:

"How do you win totals when you won zero games?"


It is mathematically impossible to lose every game but win a series.
 
I would say the Secretary is misinterpreting the
"team average -50" rule by also applying that -50 to the series.  The correct interpretation would be 3 X -50, or -150 from a team's average.

As an example, say the team bowling scores -20 under team average each game and wins each game.  The team series would be -60, which loses to -50 but wins over -150.

If the Secretary truly (and wrongly) believes that -50 is also the series target score, that can easily be reversed through a protest.
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