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Brownswick

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Reply with quote  #16 

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oldbowler wrote:  [we are] having a blast with people we like.  It is a non sanctioned league so we don't pay useless dues to USBC, and it is just FOR FUN.

 

Not wanting to pick a fight with someone kind enough to just compliment me for a well-reasoned comment (thanks), but I do want to say that the dues paid in to USBC are anything but "useless."

 

While you may not personally benefit from them, your dues do go toward such things as research (which helps everyone), coaching and the development of training programs and testing standards for coaches, as well as all the national championship events, just to name a few things they do.


Maybe I'm biased, but Junior Gold alone is worth the price of my annual USBC dues, as it helps to promote youth bowling and raise it to a level we have not witnessed before in our lifetime.  There was certainly nothing like Junior Gold for youth bowlers when you and I were kids.  Anyone who thinks bowling is a dying sport has not been to Junior Gold or one of the Storm Youth Championship events (they hold several each year across the country) or even the Bowl4Life events that now rival the Storm Youth Championship events as some of the best-run youth bowling tournaments this side of Junior Gold.

 

Check out any one of those events and your faith will be restored that bowling's future is in good hands.  Two of them, in most cases.  LOL!

 

But seriously, if you think your USBC dues are being wasted simply because the association has cut back on the number of rings it makes available for 300 games, you're taking a very short view of things.  They're doing far better things than just investing in old farts like you and me.  They're still doing that (with the Senior Open and such).  But they're doing much, much more.

 

I'm actually not near as much of a USBC fan as I'm making myself sound here.  I've had my run-ins with them, believe me.  But I do take exception with the notion that USBC dues are "wasted."  They're not.  What they're doing with the budget they have is actually quite remarkable.  And if you invested the time and effort into actually seeing what they're doing -- with youth bowling if nothing else -- I'm sure you'd agree that just that is worthy of the pittance we pay them each year.


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Oldbowler

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Reply with quote  #17 
Apparently USBC needs to do a much better job of marketing because to the average league bowler, they appear to do nothing of value.  We pay our dues and get no recognition of any honor scores other than a 300, at least where I bowl.
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chadlv

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Reply with quote  #18 
They do give awards for scores based on your average on some of them, if you aren’t getting any, is your league secretary submitting them?
Oldbowler

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadlv
They do give awards for scores based on your average on some of them, if you aren’t getting any, is your league secretary submitting them?


The last awards given out in my previous sanctioned league were from the league secretary's leftover WIBC stockpile.  Other than that they gave cheesy black small towels for something.

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chadlv

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbowler


The last awards given out in my previous sanctioned league were from the league secretary's leftover WIBC stockpile.  Other than that they gave cheesy black small towels for something.



The towels sound like something from the bowling center, We have been getting keychains, but there is no way any organization can satisfy everyone without going bankrupt trying to do so.
CObowler

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Reply with quote  #21 
Randy wrote:  "The #1 reason why people don't bowl league is because they feel like they're not good enough to compete." 


I agree completely.  As a league secretary for over a decade, and as a handicap league bowler since the mid-1970s, I have found more teams choose not to return to a league where they feel overmatched than for all other reasons combined.  In the old days, most handicap leagues were at 67% or 75%.  That was almost like bowling scratch, even without the top teams being stacked with bowlers averaging at or over the handicap base.  A league back then typically would lose about a third or more of its teams between seasons.  Replacing those teams was not hard, fortunately, since most centers had wall-to-wall leagues every night and many also had a late (9:00 PM) shift.  Leagues with a reputation for competitive balance and prize money fairness even had waiting lists for future seasons.

As the number of multi-league bowlers started dropping in the 1990s, with a corresponding reduction in the number of leagues, many of the surviving leagues began converting to 80% or 90% handicap systems to better retain the fringe teams with lower averages.  However, teams still uncompetitive within their leagues now had fewer options for movement and simply dropped out of sanctioned league bowling instead of enduring the challenge of starting over in a new league year after year.  

I believe a 90% handicap system is fairest for everyone.  The superior bowlers and teams are still going to win more often than not, but at least the lesser teams have a fighting chance.  In an ideal league with competitive balance, the first-place team would have winning percentage under .600 and the last-place team would have a winning percentage over .400.

A 100% handicap system is just not practical.  The 150-average bowlers to which Randy refers can easily improve 10 pins or more during one season and would be bowling over their posted averages most of the time, while the 200-average or 220-average bowlers generally have peaked at their individual skill levels.  That means later in the season, the low-but-improving bowler would have the statistical edge on the higher-average bowlers.
Dare

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Reply with quote  #22 
In a 100% of 220 league  it's easier for a 150 avg bowler shoot 200
than a 220 shoot 270 unless your something special. Last one I bowled
in was a 4 person league and one team had 450 pins. You penalize someone
for being good.
Oldbowler

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare
In a 100% of 220 league  it's easier for a 150 avg bowler shoot 200
than a 220 shoot 270 unless your something special. Last one I bowled
in was a 4 person league and one team had 450 pins. You penalize someone
for being good.


The Senior league at Dixie is 100% of 230, which gives me a 32 pin handicap.  I get beat all the time.  I don't care since I only look at the scratch scores for my own purposes.

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themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadlv
They do give awards for scores based on your average on some of them, if you aren’t getting any, is your league secretary submitting them?


Awards for non-first-time honor scores are provided by the local USBC association, not by the national USBC.  National dumped the responsibility onto the local association 4-5 years ago.  As such the awards may vary from place to place. 

For our association you get things like pint glasses and mugs for shooting 300 or 800, a deck of cards for shooting 299, and cheap ballpoint pens and coasters for shooting 270-somethings and 700 series.  As a league secretary, submitting the honor scores is a no-brainer.  The latter awards have to be explicitly submitted by me using a special form, and our league voted to not bother with them anymore.
chadlv

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Reply with quote  #25 
Haven’t worked closely with a league secretary in a while.

Back in March, I bowled my first 300, my LS had me fill the form out for my ring, then checked donate to museum box which baffled the association so they called me for verification. Which led me to think maybe the LS didn’t follow up.
themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadlv
Haven’t worked closely with a league secretary in a while.

Back in March, I bowled my first 300, my LS had me fill the form out for my ring, then checked donate to museum box which baffled the association so they called me for verification. Which led me to think maybe the LS didn’t follow up.


I'm not familiar with the "donate to museum" box and am not home to look at the form myself.   You should have your ring by now...if not something's amiss.  Contact the local USBC association directly and ask them if they submitted your 300 application.
chadlv

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by themrfreeze


I'm not familiar with the "donate to museum" box and am not home to look at the form myself.   You should have your ring by now...if not something's amiss.  Contact the local USBC association directly and ask them if they submitted your 300 application.


I got the ring, just took a bit longer. When I filled the form out, I didn’t see a donate box either, but that is what they said the LS checked when they called me.

Oldbowler

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by themrfreeze


Awards for non-first-time honor scores are provided by the local USBC association, not by the national USBC.  National dumped the responsibility onto the local association 4-5 years ago.  As such the awards may vary from place to place. 

For our association you get things like pint glasses and mugs for shooting 300 or 800, a deck of cards for shooting 299, and cheap ballpoint pens and coasters for shooting 270-somethings and 700 series.  As a league secretary, submitting the honor scores is a no-brainer.  The latter awards have to be explicitly submitted by me using a special form, and our league voted to not bother with them anymore.


The adult league bowlers I know only know what the local association does, not what is done on a national level, and with the chintzy awards, or none at all, their opinion is not very high at this point.  As a result, locally, many leagues are dropping out of sanctioning since they see no personal benefit to it.  As I stated before, if the USBC wants more bowlers paying dues, they need to do a much better job in the marketing department.

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themrfreeze

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbowler


The adult league bowlers I know only know what the local association does, not what is done on a national level, and with the chintzy awards, or none at all, their opinion is not very high at this point.  As a result, locally, many leagues are dropping out of sanctioning since they see no personal benefit to it.


Agreed...most of the bowlers in my league dislike the USBC and don't want to pay sanction anymore.  The *only* reason we're still a sanctioned league is that we have a mentally disabled bowler in our league who only bowls in our league and bowls in tournaments with his sister and mother.  We don't want to deprive him of that pleasure, so we stay sanctioned for his benefit.  If there was a way to keep him sanctioned but not sanction the league, we'd do it in a heartbeat.

 
Dare

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by themrfreeze


Agreed...most of the bowlers in my league dislike the USBC and don't want to pay sanction anymore.  The *only* reason we're still a sanctioned league is that we have a mentally disabled bowler in our league who only bowls in our league and bowls in tournaments with his sister and mother.  We don't want to deprive him of that pleasure, so we stay sanctioned for his benefit.  If there was a way to keep him sanctioned but not sanction the league, we'd do it in a heartbeat.

 



There was talk at one time of allowing a person to sanction himself
even if you bowled in a non sanctioned league. Wish they would
do it.
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