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Max49

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Reply with quote  #1 
I watch the Denver ABT videos on You Tube all the time.  I thought that since it is handicapped that maybe I'd have a chance. I've had a lot of better games than some of the (weekly) winners have scored. Of course the patterns are probably more difficult and not alot of time to practice them.
 I called and found out it is a $50 yearly membership and the lowest entry fee is $60. Only 1 in 5 makes the first cut and if you do your'e guaranteed to get your entry fee back. Still you have to be in the top 20%.
 Still I thought since it is handicapped, then I should have a chance. However,  Bowlers are handicapped at 70% of the difference between their assigned tournament... between the bowler's tournament average/entering average and 225
  My leagues are based on 90% and one is 100%.  
Does a lower bowler have much of a chance like this?  It seems to me that this is almost a scratch tournament and I really don't want to just sweeten the pot if I have no chance of winning a little back.

I see these guys on You tube and the winner and runner up win over a grand and sometimes they don't look like they are bowling that great.
 I know there are alot of good bowlers here, have you guys entered these tournaments?

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irishpogi

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max49
I watch the Denver ABT videos on You Tube all the time.  I thought that since it is handicapped that maybe I'd have a chance. I've had a lot of better games than some of the (weekly) winners have scored. Of course the patterns are probably more difficult and not alot of time to practice them.
 I called and found out it is a $50 yearly membership and the lowest entry fee is $60. Only 1 in 5 makes the first cut and if you do your'e guaranteed to get your entry fee back. Still you have to be in the top 20%.
 Still I thought since it is handicapped, then I should have a chance. However,  Bowlers are handicapped at 70% of the difference between their assigned tournament... between the bowler's tournament average/entering average and 225
  My leagues are based on 90% and one is 100%.  
Does a lower bowler have much of a chance like this?  It seems to me that this is almost a scratch tournament and I really don't want to just sweeten the pot if I have no chance of winning a little back.

I see these guys on You tube and the winner and runner up win over a grand and sometimes they don't look like they are bowling that great.
 I know there are alot of good bowlers here, have you guys entered these tournaments?


I too watch the Denver ABT videos because Nick the tournament director uses difficult sport patterns for his events.  Me being a student of the game enjoy watching this footage because there's something to be learned.  Do you actually live in Denver?  There used to be ABT franchises all around the USA.  I remember NYC had one I used to bowl in during the 80's and early 90's.  The NY franchise went away in 1994 and we haven't had anything since. 
BowlingOldies

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Reply with quote  #3 

I was actually asked to do the play-by-play for one of the Amateur Bowlers Tour Winter Nationals Finals a couple of years ago.  Strange deal.  The guy who was producing the video had already shot it, and he asked me to call the play-by-play after the fact, to the edited tape.  So I did.

Subsequently, I was approached by the big guy behind ABT about becoming the tournament director for the Atlanta market.  It's an intriguing idea, but sounded like more work that I was willing to put in.  It's a well-run organization, and as far as I can tell, might well be the premiere amateur bowling tournament group in America.  In the end, I decided I'd rather bowl in their tournaments than run them.  But to date, they haven't come into the Atlanta market.  I'm sure they'd like to.

The 70 percent handicap system means you've gotta bring your A-game.  I see nothing wrong with that.  I'm not a fan of rewarding people for being bad at something.  Sorry if that sounds callous, and I don't mean to be implying anything about anyone.  I just think if you want to enter a tournament and win, you ought to have to rise to the occasion and bowl your very best to get to the finals.  I think this formula ensures that.

Max49

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Reply with quote  #4 
Yes, I live in a southern Denver suburb, Parker to be exact.

Wow, I did'nt realize that we may be pretty lucky if NY and Atlanta does'nt have an ABT branch.

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Arapahoe Lanes is only a few miles from my house so I may try that Jan 16 & 17.

I understand what you are saying Randy, the better bowler deserves to have at least some advantage but if you make it "too much" the lesser bowler just won't enter and the better bowler won't have any one to bowl against or for less $.  I feel the lesser bowler needs a little incentive in order for him to pay up $60 for 3 games of bowling when he does'nt make the top 20% (if I'm understanding this right), besides just "sweetening the pot" for better bowlers.

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Reply with quote  #5 
You would not have much of a chance.  70% of 225 is nuts.  There are probably a bunch of 230-240 guys.  So what is your avg?  If it is 200 you get 17 pins, the 230 guy would beat you bowling 12 pins under avg.  The lower your avg. the less chance you have.  170 guy gets 38.  Don't forget there might even be a sandbagger in the tournament also. 
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HeyItsMe

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Reply with quote  #6 
I also watch the Denver ABT and yes some weeks there are some terrible bowlers on there. Terrible in the sense their form is ugly. Hey just how it is.

But there are some pretty good bowlers as well.
Max49

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Reply with quote  #7 
Well I am a 170ish avg bowler with some 130 and 250 ish games thrown in.  I agree with 'Heyitsme',  some of the finalists or semifinalists don't look that great, which tempts people like me  but I guess it shows we all have bad games sometimes.

They do have this special handicap rule also::::::::::::

"The not-so-secret ingredients in our recipe for success? ● ABT is dedicated to providing fair, affordable competition for bowlers of all skill levels. All standard tournaments offer two average-based divisions (Classic Division for those who average 189 or less; Masters Division for those who average 190 and higher). ● ABT uses a handicap system for both divisions. All bowlers receive handicap pins based on 70% of a 225 average. When you first join, you will be assigned an entering average based on your league average history over the past three years. After you bowl at least 12 games in ABT competition, your ABT tournament average will be used. ● If you fail to cash in the next tournament after your ABT average goes into effect, you’ll become eligible for ABT’s unique “bonus pin” system. The bonus pin system applies this way: if you fail to cash, you get added handicap pins which will make you more competitive. If you bowl above-and-beyond your basic average and cash, your average will be adjusted higher and you’ll receive fewer handicap pins. ABT is all about fair play and providing a competitive environment for all. ● Your odds of cashing are good! One out of every five entrants is guaranteed to cash. ● As a member, you can earn ABT Bucks, which can be redeemed at ABT’s local, regional and national tournaments for entry fees, merchandise or gift cards."

I guess this helps the lower avg bowlers but still by then I'd have about $300 invested in it.
I certainly don't completely understand every thing about it so if you guys know more and want to share, I'd appreciate it.
I have no idea what the Classic vs the Masters averages means.  Who am I watching in the finals?

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Reply with quote  #8 
ABT format is not good for really low average handicap bowlers.  It does give the 190-200 average league bowler a chance against the elite local guys that wouldn't be the case in a pure scratch format.   
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Reply with quote  #9 
Nice pictures of some of the winners.  How about showing the names of the winners.  Show the winners for the last 6 tournaments.  Then I and everyone else can look them up on bowl.com and see what kind of avg. they have had since 1998.  

There are many bowlers that are like poker players.  They would never tell the truth [biggrin] 

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Max49

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordman
Nice pictures of some of the winners.  How about showing the names of the winners.  Show the winners for the last 6 tournaments.  Then I and everyone else can look them up on bowl.com and see what kind of avg. they have had since 1998.  

There are many bowlers that are like poker players.  They would never tell the truth [biggrin] 


If you click on the picture , it tells their name/ names

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Reply with quote  #11 

It was explained to me when I was thinking about becoming the tournament director for the Atlanta market, and I just don't remember all the details now, but ABT does have some rules in place to keep sandbaggers from going crazy, and to keep the super high average bowlers from dominating.


All the tournaments I've seen have guys that are "pretty good" (not obvious 230 or 240 average bowlers) in contention.  The Winter Nationals event that I called in '13 (YouTube video above) was pretty typical of what I mean.  The bowlers on this telecast were all "pretty good," but I don't think you'd mistake any of them for 240 average bowlers.

Max49

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Reply with quote  #12 
I wish you were the Atlanta ABT director so you could explain things like side bets, Classic Avg, Masters Avg, Sweepers, Doubles, Singles and probably much more. I talked to Nick, the Denver Director the last 2 days, seems like a real friendly and not pushy guy. The website is OK but not great at explaining how it every thing works and you can't join online but you have to print the App.  He did tell me that I might just want to come and watch and see if I'd like to get involved with this.  He said he always welcomes new faces and tries to make it fair for every body and tries to not have any old timers or newbies dominate or make it too easy for any one. He did admit that can be a juggling act to keep it interesting for all.
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Reply with quote  #13 
If the ABT is to return to NY and come to Atlanta, there has to be a guy or gal with enough money on hand to purchase a franchise.  ABT tournaments, like McDonald's restaurants are franchise type businesses.  Gotta come up with deep pockets to start one of those babies back up.  Deep pockets I do not have.
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Reply with quote  #14 
Nick's a good guy.  Runs a tight ship but very smooth as well.  

There used to be two divisions but now most tournaments only have the one division.  


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Reply with quote  #15 
On the Denver ABT I do enjoy the commentary and adding the overlay of the game score on-screen all the time really helps. It is a pretty tight knit community as they do take funny personal jabs at the players many times
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