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brian1969

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Reply with quote  #16 

Bucket, you're obviously missing the point I'm trying to make, i.e., it doesn't matter WHO throws the ball...they practically roll themselves. I'm not demeaning WRW's abilities, as I've said already.

 

There is a clip on You Tube by some science show where they follow the manufacturing process of the new balls. They show how the coverstock grabs the lane, but more importantly they show how the core is fundamental in adding revs to the ball that the player did NOT put on it, and how said core basically steers itself:

 

 

I don't care how you slice it, this is the same as steroids in baseball, except in this case the ball is the one juiced, not the player.


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champ

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Reply with quote  #17 
Good video Brian, I can honestly say I learned a few things. Imagine if they tried to make that same video for old plastic balls. The video would have gone, "If you think the bowling ball is just a glorified marble...you are right" and that would have been it.

Side note, its pretty cute at the end of the video, when they show his 212 game, they are clearly playing no-tap. 
bowlerpu

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Reply with quote  #18 
I believe WRW is the only guy to do 299 2x televised.

Both half 10s.

And that ridiculous boning in the Japan Cup on #11.

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mikeanthony8

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlerpu
I believe WRW is the only guy to do 299 2x televised.

Both half 10s.

And that ridiculous boning in the Japan Cup on #11.
Actually pops had one in Cleveland (solid 9) and Hawaii (solid 6) along with his 300 in Japan on TV

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Mike Anthony
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Reply with quote  #20 

1st off I don't see any video.  Where is it?

 

2nd brian1969 is correct that the balls of today hook very easily.  That is why bowlers can throw them so hard and still get the roll and hook to throw the pins all over the place and get such good carry. 

 

With the old balls your ball would not have hooked with that speed and you would have been shooting 5 pins, buckets, and splits like the 5-7 and 8-10 rh.

 

That being said great bowling Walter.

 

That has so little to do with bowling losing bowlers it is silly.  More people quit because it is too hard than too easy.  They try for a while and get tired of looking foolish and go play Wi.


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Chipper

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Reply with quote  #21 
Wow...lots of replies on this one.  WRW shot 3-0 and WRW is really good.  So the headpin bounced....WRW also throws 18-19mph with heavy roll...of course the pins will bounce!  He's always thrown strong rolling shots...Chris Barnes is another who throws a heavy rolling ball and he gets pins to bounce too.

Of course technology helps, but WRW isn't going to drill up stuff that won't work for him.  He could still make weak equipment look good when the rest of us don't have a chance in hell.  The technology that exists compliments his style of throwing very well.  It won't work great for everyone, that's why this resin technology doesn't automatically give everyone 220 averages.  People still got to throw the ball and throw it right to score.  The ball is only one factor.

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brian1969

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Reply with quote  #22 

I think there were a couple of people who had 299 more than once on tv. Roth, Anthony, Walter Ray...I'm thinking there are a few more, but could be mistaken.

 

As for the "you couldn't throw it that hard and get it to hook" line, that's simply untrue. There was a guy that made the scratch tourney rounds back in the day, and he was a BIG guy (not fat...he was about 6'8" and he was built like a brick s##thouse, as they used to say). He threw it harder than anyone I've ever seen, past or present...and he hooked the crap out of it, even on super-slick lanes. It was like a buzzsaw going into the pins. He turned the ball hard with a cupped wrist, bent elbow to get under it even more, and he snapped up/lifted the holy hell out of it. He couldn't make his spares, but there was no denying he had strike power beyond belief. Granted, he was the exception, not the rule, but he proves that you could do it.

 

I also disagree with Ford's last statement, that more quit because it's too hard. I think more start because it's so easy. We lose the really, genuine good players for that very fact: that these guys who think they're really good are getting a "free ride", so to speak, and it galls them. That's the main reason I didn't go back after the leg injury, to tell you the truth. Then these same people who find it too easy, they lose interest and they quit, too (and that is the major reason why, I strongly feel, that the PBA tanked back in the 90s...people quit watching because they saw it as a huge joke). If something isn't challenging, you quit doing it.

 

Personally, I've always loved the sport for that very reason: because it's a challenge. Or, at least, it's supposed to be. It USED to be. I will grant you that modern lane conditions and knowing how to drill a ball is a challenge, but sports isn't supposed to be about who has the most understanding of chemistry and physics, it's supposed to be about actual physical skill. We lost that when these new balls came out, I think.

 

Anyway, I'm done beating this horse for awhile. It's summertime, so people should be out enjoying themselves and be with their families.


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brian1969

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Reply with quote  #23 
On a side note, yeah, the 212 game the video shows...I think they were being funny with that. Still, it does kind of show you that even a person who has never bowled can take one of these balls and, with the least amount of skill, training, instruction, etc., do pretty decent. Imagine how he'd be doing if he went and practiced with it for a week or two, instead of the maybe half-hour he spent on this one game!
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brian1969

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Reply with quote  #24 

Chip, no one is saying that "you buy a ball, you automatically have a 220 average". But there's no denying the fact that these balls inflate averages unfairly.

 

A guy who was once averaging 160 is now at 190. A 180 bowler is now a scratch player. It takes mediocre players and makes them, for lack of a better word, star players. But the thing is, they didn't add that much to the average of players who were already scratch players before they came out.

 

Using me as an example, I was a 205-210 average player when they came out (I had a good season or two where I was around 218). After they came out, my average held steady around the 215 mark. I went up 5 pins, maybe 10 at the most. Now, is that fair that I only went up a few pins, but others -- with far less skill and ability, mind you -- went up by 30, 40, or even 50 pins?

 

It wasn't just me, either. There were several other scratch bowlers in my area who were in the 210-215 range. The most I've ever seen them average after the reactives came out was 222...a gain of 7 pins.

 

Again, I'm not saying anything bad about WRW. He is irrelevant to this discussion, because we already know he is skilled, he's proven that time and time again, pre-reactive and post-reactive era. And I'm not knocking his 300 game here, either...that last shot was already a strike, regardless of whether the headpin died in the channel, was thrown to the opposite side wall, or whether it got up and did a song and dance routine. I know a lot of you guys are WRW fans, so don't take what I've said about the technology as an attack on him, because it isn't.


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Brian
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Reply with quote  #25 

Hey Brian this discussion is about WRW shooting a 300.  Not about bowling balls. 

I would bet a few $$ that for everyone who quits because it is too easy there are thousands who just quit.  Cost, Time involved, having to work too much and being just too tired.  How about driving the kids.  Remember when they actually walked places?  If it isn't electronic it is boring to them.


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brian1969

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Reply with quote  #26 

I know, Fordman, but we started talking about the pin action and it went on from there. And you are right, there are thousands who just quit for no other reason than time, cost, too much on their plate, etc. And kids today, you're right about that, too...if it isn't a video game of some type, they lose interest.


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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeanthony8
Actually pops had one in Cleveland (solid 9) and Hawaii (solid 6) along with his 300 in Japan on TV

Hey Mike, what center did your dad shoot 300 at in Hawaii? Is it on video?

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mikeanthony8

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpkaina
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeanthony8
Actually pops had one in Cleveland (solid 9) and Hawaii (solid 6) along with his 300 in Japan on TV

Hey Mike, what center did your dad shoot 300 at in Hawaii? Is it on video?
I'm not sure what center he had 299 at in Hawaii...he left a solid 6 in that event.  It was around 1975 or so.  He bowled Art Trask in the final 299-199.  The Hawaii Invitational was bowled at numerous centers in match play format back then.  I think they bowled ten game blocks at 4-5 centers every other day.  It was a lot of fun to go to (stayed at the Hawaii Hilton Rainbow Towers on Waikiki Beach).  They had 8 PBA Members, and I believe a bowler from Australia, Japan, Korea, China, Hawaii, and a couple other countries.  
His 300 was in the Japan Gold Cup on National Japanese TV live.  The PBA back then didn't count the Japan Gold Cup for it's official statistics or as a title even though (once again LOL) they do now.  Here's a photo of him at the event, and a link to some other photos I've posted on Facebook.  He was also awarded a Samurai Helmut and Sword that my older sister has to this day.   The helmut weight about 75 pounds.....



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Reply with quote  #29 
No video of his bowling a 300?

bowler723

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Reply with quote  #30 

Winston-Salem Hawaiian Invitational



$35,000 WINSTON-SALEM HAWAIIAN INVITATIONAL
Various Centers, Honolulu, Hawaii, Dec 2-12, 1974

Anthony A Hono-Lulu

Earl Anthony captured the $35,000 Winston-Salem Invitational with a 299 effort in the championship game; won his sixth Professional Bowlers Association (PBA) title of the year to tie a record, and pushed his official earnings to $99,160 in the last mayor stop on the 1974 tour.

Victim of Anthony s onslaught in the finals at Kalihi Bowl was Art Trask, Miami, Fla . who was looking for his first PBA victory, but the best he could muster against Anthony's near-perfect game was a 199. Anthony left a six-pin on his final ball.

"It was a little bit high but I thought it was a pretty good hit," Anthony told newsmen later as he described his last ball. It was the second time this year that Anthony was deprived of a 300 by one pin during a televised finale. He got them all except a nine-pin during the finals of the $60 000 Cleveland Rotary Open.

The tournament at Honolulu was no cakewalk for Anthony.

Veteran Carmen Salvino led after the first round. Anthony took over for another round, then surrendered the lead to Jay Robinson. Anthony finally got it back with 10 games to go and cemented his top-seeded spot in the finals by winning seven of his last 10 games, including a 268-217 victory over Trask in the position-round game.

Joining Anthony, Trask, Robinson and Salvino in the finals was Larry Laub runnerup to Anthony in the money standings In the first gam a of the finals, Salvino defeated Laub, 230-204, but then went down to defeat at Robinson's hands, 220-180. Trask then came on the scene and ousted Robinson, 224-201, setting the stage for Anthony's championship game splurge.

TELEVISED FINALS

Pos.Name, City/StateTotalAmount
1Earl Anthony, Tacoma, Wash.299 (1 game)$3,000
2Art Trask, Miami, Fla.423 (2 games)2,250
3Jay Robinson, Los Angeles, Calif.421 (2 games)2,000
4Carmen Salvino, Chicago, Ill.410 (2 games)1,900
5Larry Laub, San Francisco, Calif.204 (1 game)1,800

PLAYOFF RESULTS-Salvino defeated Laub, 230-204; Robinson defeated Salvino, 220-180; Trask defeated Robinson, 224-201, and in the championship game, Anthony defeated Trask, 299-199.

40-GAME TOTALS

Name, City/StatePins WLT+TotAmt
1Earl Anthony, Tacoma, Wash. 8693 26-14-0 780 9473
2Art Trask, Miami, Fla. 8581 25-15-0 750 9331
3Jay Robinson, Los Angeles, Calif. 8540 25-15-0 750 9290
4Larry Laub, San Francisco, Calif. 8409 27-12-1 825 9234
5Carmen Salvino, Chicago, Ill. 8416 25-15-0 750 9166
*6Jim Stefanich, Joliet, Ill. 8340 23-17-0 690 9030 $1,750
7Ed Ressler, Allentown, Pa. 8332 20-17-3 645 8977 1,600
8Roy Buckley, Columbus, Ohio 8359 19-21-0 570 8929 1,500
9Paul Colwell, Tucson, Ariz. 8293 18-22-0 540 8833 1,450
10Gary Dickinson, Ft. Worth, Texas 8195 21-19-0 630 8825 1,400
11Sam Flanagan, Parkersburg, W.Va. 7970 23-16-1 705 8675 1,350
12Don McCune, Munster, Ind. 8132 16-24-0 480 8612 1,300
13Alex Seymore, Kannapolis, N.C. 8063 18-22-0 540 8603 1,250

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